AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

Geoff Bennett is away.

On the "NewsHour" tonight: A Department of Justice investigation prompted by the killing of George Floyd finds patterns of abuse within the Minneapolis Police Department.

Severe storms rip through the Southern U.S., killing multiple people and leaving behind a trail of destruction.

Plus, we speak with Miami Mayor Francis Suarez about why he's joining the already crowded field of Republican presidential candidates.

(BREAK) AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening, and welcome to the "NewsHour."

The Minneapolis Police Department repeatedly used excessive and unjustified deadly force against city residents.

That was the conclusion of a major investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice.

The findings documented longstanding patterns of abuse and discrimination against Black and indigenous citizens.

Special correspondent Fred de Sam Lazaro has the story from Minneapolis.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the findings of the two-year-long investigation today, and he said problems in the department began well before George Floyd's murder.

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. Attorney General: The patterns and practices we observed made what happened to George Floyd possible.

As one city leader told us -- quote -- "These systemic issues didn't just occur on May 25, 2020."

There were instances like that that were being reported by the community long before that.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The federal civil rights investigation began after former Minneapolis Police Officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd.

Floyd's death in 2020 was captured on cell phone video, which sparked protests globally and calls for policing reform.

Among the federal government's key findings, the Minneapolis Police Department engaged in excessive use of force, including deadly force against Black and indigenous people, unlawful discriminatory policing against those groups, as well as individuals with behavioral health disabilities, and repeated violations of the first and Fourth Amendments of the Constitution, including restraining and beating protesters and retaliating against journalists.

Garland detailed some examples of the worst offenses his team found.

MERRICK GARLAND: MPD officers discharged firearms at people without assessing whether the person presents any threat, let alone a threat that would justify deadly force.

For example, in 2017, an MPD officers shot and killed an unarmed woman who he said had - - quote -- "spooked him" when she approached his squad car.

A review found numerous incidents in which MPD officers responded to a person's statement that they could not breathe with the version of: "You can breathe.

You're talking right now."

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: The report found officers stopped Black people six-and-a-half times more often than whites and stopped Native Americans at nearly eight times the rate of whites.

The report also found racial disparities in traffic stops and use of force.

KRISTEN CLARKE, Assistant U.S. Attorney General: MPD also uses force against -- uses force during stops involving Black and Native American people more frequently than they do during stops involving white people, even when they behave in similar ways.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: From January 2016 to August 2022, three-quarters of the Minneapolis Police Department's reported uses of force -- quote - - "did not involve an associated violent offense or a weapons offense" -- unquote.

Mayor Jacob Frey acknowledged there was much work to do, but applauded reforms already in place, including new policies that prohibit neck restraints and no-knock warrants.

JACOB FREY (D), Mayor of Minneapolis, Minnesota: Now, we haven't been just waiting and sitting on our hands to see through change.

We wholeheartedly shifted our form of government.

We hired a new commissioner, a new police chief, a new city attorney.

We're doubling down on violence prevention work even further, and we want to extend and enhance safety beyond policing.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Earlier this year, the state reached a settlement with Minneapolis after its own investigation by the Department of Human Rights found similar widespread abuses and a lack of accountability.

The Justice Department said it expects a consent decree to enforce new protections and rules against abuse and excessive use of force to be negotiated within the next several months.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Fred de Sam Lazaro.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other headlines: The man who opened fire at a Pittsburgh synagogue was found guilty of all federal charges he faced.

Robert Bowers killed 11 Jewish worshipers at the Tree of Life Synagogue in 2018.

It was the deadliest antisemitic terror attack in U.S. history.

Now jurors must decide whether the 50-year-old should be sentenced to death or life in prison without parole.

Cleanup efforts are under way across several Southern states after powerful storms bore down on the region.

The severe weather killed at least five people in Texas, Florida, and Mississippi, and injured more than a hundred others.

The worst of the damage was in Northern Texas, where a tornado leveled much of one community northeast of Amarillo.

John Yang has our report.

JOHN YANG: Devastation and destruction in the Texas Panhandle, as a deadly tornado ripped through the small town of Perryton.

Its residents are grappling with unfathomable loss.

Officials estimate that 200 homes in the area were destroyed.

A trailer park in the north part of town suffered a direct hit.

The storm began in the late afternoon with heavy hail.

WOMAN: This is the tornado.

JOHN YANG: Residents caught the twister on camera from afar after it touched down, apparently without warning.

WOMAN: Total devastation.

JOHN YANG: It continued for more than a mile, at one point barreling through downtown, leaving it unrecognizable.

Paul Dutcher is the town's fire chief.

PAUL DUTCHER, Perryton, Texas, Fire Chief: The power lines down, trees shredded, just debris all across the major highways, the major streets.

Everything was covered, to a point I couldn't even get to the fire station.

JOHN YANG: Texas Governor Greg Abbott sent state emergency services to help clean up and restore utilities.

The severe weather was fueled by extreme heat in the region that's making the atmosphere unstable.

It's expected to continue this weekend.

Forecasters say it could feel as hot as 110 degrees in parts of Texas.

Severe weather also caused damage in other areas in the South.

MAN: Oh, wow.

JOHN YANG: From strong wind and heavy rain in Louisiana, to massive hail in Arkansas, to storms in the Florida Panhandle that became deadly overnight when a twister knocked a tree onto a house.

And in the North, another suspected tornado in Ohio toppled trees, and busted power lines, cutting electricity for thousands.

More severe weather is expected in Texas and Oklahoma into this evening.

For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm John Yang.

AMNA NAWAZ: At least two people have died after a severe cyclone battered Western India; 23 others were injured.

Heavy rains submerged parts of Gujarat State, as fierce winds uprooted trees and electrical poles.

The cyclone was expected to weaken as it moved across Southern Pakistan, an area still recovering from last year's devastating floods.

K.M.

DASTUR, Fire Official, Gujarat State, India (through translator): The number of fallen trees has risen.

Yesterday, only a few small structures collapsed, but, judging by the wind speed, the damage might be worse today.

Excavators are working now to remove those trees.

AMNA NAWAZ: More than 180,000 people in both countries were forced to leave their homes to take shelter ahead of the cyclone.

In Greece, the search for victims of a migrant boat disaster entered its third and final day, but hopes are dwindling fast.

Rescuers have not found any bodies since late Wednesday.

And they fear up to 500 missing people have drowned.

In Kalamata, emotional reunions took place between survivors and their loved ones.

About 100 migrants were moved to a camp outside Athens, where officials were overwhelmed with calls.

ANWAR BAKRI, Secretary General, Syrian Association of Greece (through translator): I have unending photographs, small kids, 16, 20-years-olds, 25-year-olds whose parents are looking for them.

From what I was told, there are no women.

All the women died, drowned, with their children in their arms.

It is a tragedy.

It is unbelievable.

AMNA NAWAZ: A hundred and four survivors, all men, were rescued.

They were from Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, and the Palestinian territories; 78 people were confirmed dead.

Pope Francis was discharged today from the Rome hospital where he underwent hernia surgery nine days ago.

His surgeon said the pontiff is doing -- quote - - "better than before."

The 86-year-old waved to well-wishers and prayed to an icon of the Virgin Mary before returning to the Vatican.

He plans to make his traditional appearance greeting the public in St. Peter's Square on Sunday.

The NBA has suspended Memphis Grizzlies point guard Ja Morant for a second time for flashing a handgun in a social media video.

This time, he will sit out for the first 25 games of the upcoming season.

He already served an eight-game suspension for showing a handgun in a video posted last March.

In a statement, Morant apologized, saying - - quote -- "I hope you will give me the chance to prove to you over time I'm a better man than what I have been showing you."

And stocks gave up some ground on Wall Street today.

The Dow Jones industrial average lost 109 points to close at 34300.

The Nasdaq fell 93 points.

And the S&P 500 slipped 16.

And two passings to note.

Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst behind the 1971 Pentagon Papers leak, died of pancreatic cancer today at his home in California.

The top secret 7,000-page document revealed that the U.S. government knowingly misled the nation about its involvement in the Vietnam War.

He spoke about his decision to leak the documents in a 2010 interview with the PBS program "POV."

DANIEL ELLSBERG, Former State Department Official: As the Pentagon Papers showed -- and I have often said that I feel very regretful that I had not put out those documents when I could have in 1964 and '65 -- I think that a war really might have been avoided.

AMNA NAWAZ: Daniel Ellsberg was 92 years old.

And Donald Triplett, the first person to ever be diagnosed with autism, has died.

He passed away at his home in Forest, Mississippi after an extended illness.

Triplett was profiled in the book "In a Different Key: The Story of Autism."

It was a 2017 Pulitzer Prize finalist for general nonfiction and later led to a PBS documentary.

Donald Triplett was 89 years old.

Still to come on the "NewsHour": David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart weigh in on the legacy of Daniel Ellsberg; a new poll reveals what voters think of former President Trump's indictment; and musician John Legend embarks on a personal path for his latest creative endeavor.

It was certainly an historic week, as Donald Trump became the first ex-president to face charges in federal court.

And a new ""PBS NewsHour"/NPR/Marist poll helps explain how American voters view the former president.

The indicted former president lashing out.

DONALD TRUMP, Former President of the United States: A corrupt sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on fake and fabricated charges.

AMNA NAWAZ: Many of his Republican rivals coming to his defense.

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), Presidential Candidate: This is my commitment, on January 20, 2025, if I am elected the next U.S. president, to pardon Donald J. Trump.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mr. Trump faces 37 federal criminal charges.

The indictment alleges he conspired to hide classified documents from the government after being asked to return them.

It was just the latest indictment of the former president.

In April, he was charged in a New York court with 34 counts of falsifying business records to hide damaging information from voters before the 2016 election.

And more charges may be coming.

A Georgia investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election is expected to wrap up this summer.

The response from American voters?

PROTESTER: We want Trump!

AMNA NAWAZ: Sharp divides and a clear test of party allegiance.

In a new "PBS NewsHour"/NPR/Marist poll, half of Americans say Mr. Trump has done something illegal, including half of independents.

A quarter of respondents believe he's done nothing wrong.

But half of Republicans hold that view.

Those feelings were on display at a GOP focus group in Iowa assembled by pollster Sarah Longwell that the "NewsHour" observed.

SOPHIA DETLEFSEN, Republican Voter: Why isn't Biden indicted?

Just because he gave them back at an appropriate time?

I mean, really?

He did exactly the same thing.

MATT THOMPSON, Republican Voter: You have a current president who is siccing all of the DOJ on a potential candidate.

That's never happened.

LEE MIRINGOFF, Director, Marist Institute for Public Opinion: The country is so divided that these events are being seen in absolutely separate lenses.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lee Miringoff is the director of the Marist College Institute for Public Opinion.

LEE MIRINGOFF: If you talk about what's happening in American politics, candidate Trump, President Trump, former President Trump all define so much of our political reality today, but not in a unified way.

People are just viewing him so differently, with a different lens, depending on whether they're Democrats, Republicans or independents.

AMNA NAWAZ: This indictment has only solidified Mr. Trump's support among Republicans.

In the Marist poll, Trump has seen an eight-point jump since February; 76 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning voters now view him favorably.

SARAH LONGWELL, Longwell Partners: Raise your hand if it makes you support him more.

Raise your hand if it makes you support him less.

AMNA NAWAZ: Americans overall feel very differently.

More than half say Trump should drop out of the presidential race, including 58 percent of independents.

But, for Republicans, nearly two-thirds say Trump will have their support in the GOP primary.

Just one-third say they will support another candidate.

As the number of primary candidates continues to grow, they will need to change many Republican minds before voting begins early next year.

And the long list of Republican presidential candidates gained its first mayor this week.

Miami Mayor Francis Suarez says he can usher in a new era for the GOP and the country.

FRANCIS SUAREZ (R), Presidential Candidate: Run for president of the United States of America.

AMNA NAWAZ: A third Florida man in the race, Miami Mayor Francis Suarez kicking off his bid for the White House, the only mayor in the growing GOP field.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: I believe America is still a shining city on a hill whose eyes of the world are upon us and whose promise needs to be restored.

And I believe the city needs more than a shouter or a fighter.

I believe it needs a servant.

It needs a mayor.

AMNA NAWAZ: Suarez is in the spotlight for the second time this week after helping coordinate security around the arraignment of his now-opponent Donald Trump.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: In our city, A, we obviously, believe in the Constitution and believe that people should have the right to express themselves.

But we also believe in law and order.

AMNA NAWAZ: The Cuban American followed his father's footsteps into politics.

Xavier Suarez served as the city's mayor in the 1980s and 1990s.

Francis Suarez was first elected in 2017 with more than 80 percent of the vote.

It's a part-time, largely ceremonial position, but Suarez pushed an economic agenda with an eye towards cryptocurrency and tech.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: In Miami, we have already shown that our city is willing to lead into this new world of opportunity of crypto.

AMNA NAWAZ: The 45-year-old stands out in the GOP field with more centrist positions on immigration and climate change, which he believes is a major threat.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: It's not theoretical for us in the city of Miami.

It's real.

We deal with it day in and day out, year after year.

AMNA NAWAZ: Over his two terms, Suarez has at times sparred with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, now his GOP rival, even criticizing the governor's fight with Disney.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: He took an issue that was a winning issue that we all agreed on, which was parental rights for K through third-graders, and it looks like now it's something that spite or maybe potentially a personal vendetta, which has cost the state now potentially 2,000 jobs and a billion-dollar investment.

AMNA NAWAZ: But Suarez is also fighting his own battles.

Last month, The Miami Herald reported he was paid thousands of dollars by a real estate developer in the city, money now under investigation as possible bribes.

Suarez denies the allegation.

And the Miami mayor now campaigns against two men who he did not vote for in previous elections, the former president, and Florida governor, though he said he will back the eventual 2024 Republican nominee.

And here to talk about the launch of his campaign is Mayor Francis Suarez.

Mr. Mayor, welcome to the "NewsHour."

Thanks for joining us.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: Thank you for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, as we just heard there, you did not vote for President Trump.

We know he currently leads in early polls among GOP candidates, meaning Republican voters really do like him.

So I guess the first question is, why should those same voters back you, if you didn't back him?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: You know, I think the voters have a choice.

And the voters can decide to redo the 2020 election.

That's obviously a choice that they have.

Or they can decide to choose something else.

And I think, among the available candidates that they have, I think I'd rather be unknown and exciting than known and unexciting.

AMNA NAWAZ: You have said specifically you're running for president because you feel you have a different message.

In terms of messages and how they land with people.

How is your message -- specifically, how is it different from Mr. Trump's?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: Well, my message is different from all the candidates.

I'm someone that didn't come from Washington.

I'm someone that has executive leadership at the mayoral level, which is closest to the people.

I'm someone who's actually cut taxes.

I'm someone who's balanced a budget.

I'm someone who has created tremendous prosperity.

We're number one in wage growth.

We have the low unemployment in America.

And I have created that dynamism because I have met the moment in our city.

AMNA NAWAZ: I have to ask you, though, because we're speaking after the front-runner in your party right now was just arraigned on federal charges.

You have said that you haven't ruled out pardoning Mr. Trump if you were to win.

And I want to be clear about this.

You're saying, if he's found guilty of illegally retaining national security documents and obstructing justice, you would deem those pardonable crimes; is that right?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: I wouldn't rule out a pardon for either party if it can heal the nation, number one.

Number two, the issue at stake in the Trump case is whether he willfully retained national security documents.

It's clear that the current president, former vice president retained national security documents.

It's clear that the former secretary of state.. (CROSSTALK) AMNA NAWAZ: Yes, but you know those are also very different circumstances.

That's been made clear.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: They're -- they're not different circumstances.

The question is whether there was willful... (CROSSTALK) FRANCIS SUAREZ: And that's going to be decided by a jury of his peers.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mr. Mayor, all due respect, they are very different.

The question here is whether Mr. Trump also obstructed justice in refusing to hand back documents.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: That's going to be decided by a jury.

You can have your perspective.

I have my perspective.

AMNA NAWAZ: These aren't perspectives, sir.

These are facts.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: You have your perspective.

I have my perspective.

My perspective is that he is going to be judged by a jury of his peers.

I personally would not have retained documents.

I think most Americans find it very strange that any public official, whether they're a current president, a former vice president, where you're a current secretary of state, whether you were the vice president under President Trump, or the president.

They don't understand why anybody would retain documents that are of national security importance, whether it's willful or unwillful.

And so that's very bewildering, I think, to the American public.

But everybody in this country has a constitutional right -- despite what the press would like to see and debate constantly ad nauseam, they have a constitutional right to trial by jury.

Once that process concludes, then we will know whether he did something wrong or not.

You can't convict someone by indictment.

And then if I'm the president of the United States, and he or anyone else had commits a crime that I feel pardoning that person would heal the country, would bring the country together, would unify the country, I certainly would consider it, of course.

I would be negligent not to.

AMNA NAWAZ: I'd like to ask you about another issue you have spoken on quite a bit, which is immigration, but specific -- specifically about DACA recipients in the country.

I know there are tens of thousands in Florida alone.

As you know, there's a court ruling pending that could deem the DACA program illegal and throw many of those young adults' lives into disarray and chaos.

Back in 2020, you signed a letter from the U.S. Conference of Mayors urging then-President Trump not to end DACA.

So, as president, how would you approach this?

Would you grant those dreamers a path to citizenship?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: It's been a product of multiple different administrations, both Republican and Democrat.

And we have to solve this crisis.

We have, first of all, a problem at the border.

We have six to seven people -- six to seven million people that have entered illegally into this country just in the last couple of years, and that's created chaos throughout American cities.

And we have China, who is spending a trillion dollars of our money subverting us in our own hemisphere, putting more immigration pressure on our country.

And we have an incoherent non-nexus system for legal immigration that's not indexed to things like unemployment or the fact that we have a declining birth rate.

That's the kind of conversation that we have - - we need to have.

And we do also need to include DACA recipients, and we do also need to include those who are undocumented in the conversation to determine what kind of status that they should receive.

But I will tell you that, as a Hispanic Republican president, I think I would be in a strong position to be able to solve this issue once and for all.

AMNA NAWAZ: So how would you do that?

With respect to those dreamers, would you grant them a path to citizenship?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: Well, I think what you have to do is, you have to convince both parties that that particular class of immigrant is one that need -- that should be a citizen.

And I think -- I think part of it is, as a Hispanic Republican potential president, and as a president, you're going to have the ability to hopefully convince Republicans that they shouldn't be afraid of legalizing certain immigrants who are going to be productive members of our society, like my parents were when they came to this country at 12 and 7.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mr. Mayor, you have made very clear who you are and what you believe.

But I wonder how your experience in what is a part-time job, which people describe as mostly ceremonial, as the mayor of Miami, how does that translate to the demands of the presidency?

FRANCIS SUAREZ: I think that's a fair question, obviously.

But the courage that it takes to make tough choices does not depend on, for example, the number of zeros in your budget or the number of people that you manage.

It depends on your track record of decision-making.

And my track record of decision-making has demonstrated that I'm not afraid to make tough choices.

And so those kinds of decisions, which are the decisions that need to be made to bring our country back to prosperity, are not dependent on the kind of job that you have today.

They're dependent on the ability that you have and you have brought to the job.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is the mayor of Miami, Francis Suarez.

Mr. Mayor, thank you for your time.

Good luck on the trail, and please come back and join us again.

FRANCIS SUAREZ: Thank you.

You got it, for sure.

AMNA NAWAZ: For reaction on the growing presidential field and former President Trump's latest legal battle, we turn to the analysis of Brooks and Capehart.

That is New York Times columnist David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart, associate editor for The Washington Post.

Gentlemen, good to see you.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Hi, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: Every time we get together, there's new presidential candidates to discuss.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: So, let's jump in.

David, it strikes me there are other moderate Republicans, Chris Sununu, Larry Hogan, who said, I'm not going to jump into this field.

Francis Suarez is.

Is there -- are there enough primary voters to propel him forward?

DAVID BROOKS: I thought so once upon a time.

Maybe six months ago, I thought there were.

There would seem to be deflection.

And there was a -- there was -- the Republican Party up through Mitt Romney, you would think that would still exist somewhere.

And I think it does to some degree.

And Sununu, I thought, would be a strong candidate.

I thought Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia, not quite as moderate.

But this guy's a genuine moderate.

I mean, he's sort of gesturing in that interview toward a comprehensive immigration plan, which he supported in the past.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right, which you don't hear often.

DAVID BROOKS: And on climate change.

There are some other issues where he's a genuine moderate.

He has a fantastic story to tell in Miami.

I think he's going to have to get a lot more polished as a question-answerer, frankly.

But I still think, in theory, there's room for one person who's not Donald Trump, and it could be him.

It could be Tim Scott.

I think, in theory, there's room for that person.

That person will get a bump at some point.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, I want to revisit some of the poll numbers we reported on earlier.

This is the context into which he's stepping in.

When look at Mr. Trump's support, it has grown among Republicans.

He had an eight-point favorability jump since February.

And when you ask Republican and GOP leaning voters, only a third of them say they will support someone else other than Donald Trump.

So, do you see any of this changing?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: No.

No.

And Mayor Suarez has a story to tell.

Unfortunately, no one wants to hear it.

Those numbers show that no one really wants to hear about anyone else, except for Donald Trump.

And if there are more indictments that come down the road for the former president, I fully expect his numbers to keep going up.

This is part of Donald Trump's story, his political story.

And he could spend pretty much all of 2024 in a courtroom, instead of on the campaign trail.

But, for Donald Trump, the courtroom will be the campaign trail, and his poll numbers will go up, and his fund-raising will go up.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, we have to remind people this bump in favorability, this is all happening, yes, after this latest indictment, but also after the indictment in New York, after he was found liable for sexually abusing and defaming writer E. Jean Carroll.

And now you have candidates like Vivek Ramaswamy saying, "I will pardon him," and Francis Suarez not ruling it out.

What kind of precedent does that set?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, well, Trump's core narrative and the core narrative of the Republican Party these days is: They're out to get us, and they're out to attack our faith.

They're out to attack our values.

They're changing our country.

And this -- he -- this can be spun into a part of that narrative: They're out to get us, and this is just another attempt of they being out to get us.

And so it resonates with people.

And there's been a clear rallying around.

I think what's interesting to me about the Republican voters is that a clear majority of them think this is all political.

It's Joe Biden's -- but then, If you ask them, do you think did something wrong, a significant chunk think he did something wrong.

AMNA NAWAZ: Right.

DAVID BROOKS: And so they're a little cross-pressured more than in previous stories, I would say.

And I'm not sure it's going to change, but we will see.

I was struck.

FOX News, Jonathan Turley, some of their analysts have been very harsh, Bill Barr.

And so if there's a chance that some elite opinion is shifting against him, that will lead to other opinions shifting against him.

Maybe there's a little crack in the window, but I probably think another indictment, he's up to 150 percent.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: Do you agree with that, crack in the window that could shift things down the road?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, sure, it's a crack in the window because, unlike, say, the Mueller investigation, this is really easy to understand.

It's easy to understand, a la -- in the same way that the January 6 hearings was easy for the American people to understand.

Classified documents with national security secrets belong to the U.S. government, and you're not supposed to take them.

And then you see the photos of bathrooms and storage rooms and ballrooms and the nation's national security secrets just spilled about everywhere.

The American people see that.

And, like, that's not exact -- that's not cool.

That's not right.

And you should be held accountable for that.

AMNA NAWAZ: I mean, you talk about the consequences of the ramping up of the attacks against President Biden, for sure, also, this language that this is all part of a weaponization of government agencies.

I want to ask you about that, because Greg Sargent actually wrote about this in a piece in The Washington Post today, an opinion piece.

And this is part of just what he said in terms of the other GOP candidates echoing that message.

He wrote: "By endorsing this idea that mass victimization is real, Trump's rivals could help feed a widespread yearning for mass retaliation under the next GOP president."

In other words, David, it's not necessarily about 2024, but this is about the future as well.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes.

I mean, there's a subterranean culture war going on in the race.

And Trumpism stands for a couple of ideas.

One is that people are basically selfish and we should grab what you can while you can, two, that all of our institutions are fundamentally corrupt.

It's political and it's corrupt all the way down.

Now, I personally don't agree with that.

I have covered this town.

We all have -- and I would say our institutions are frail and faltering, but worthy of respect.

And a lot of the people who are prosecutors in the Department of Justice or serving in the Department of Education or whatever, they just want to do their jobs.

And the idea that it's corruption all the way down is just fundamentally not true.

But I have found it's very hard to persuade a lot of people in this country of that fact.

AMNA NAWAZ: It is striking, Jonathan, that a lot of the language is working to undermine many of the same agencies that these folks are running, are asking people to let them be in charge of, as president of the United States, right?

And how do you see the long-term potential consequences of something like that?

Can that go back in a bottle?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I don't know.

We're living in the middle of it now.

The people who are now in Washington, part of the new -- this new Republican majority in the House, they were elected to come to Washington and break it.

And so whether it's Donald Trump or another Republican president, the folks who vote for them hope that these people come here and break this town, because they think it deserves to be broken, because they think it's rigged.

And a lot of the language that comes out of former President Trump and a lot of Republicans is all about projection, the weaponization of the DOJ, just that -- the term weaponization.

Well, we know because Donald Trump has promised, if he's reelected, he will -- he said: I will be your retribution.

I will go after the people who are coming after me, because, if they're coming after me, that's a proxy for them coming after you.

That kind of language is incredibly dangerous, not just for our institutions, but also for our just national political discourse, how we talk about each other, but also, to David's point, the respect we should have for these institutions, because, without these institutions, where is America?

AMNA NAWAZ: In the few minutes we have left, I do want to ask you about something we reported on earlier, which was the passing of Daniel Ellsberg, of course, a military analyst who was so deeply disturbed by the lies being told to the American public about the Vietnam War that he leaked the so-called Pentagon Papers and changed the course of history.

I just want to play a little bit, so we can hear him in his own words.

This is him from a 2017 "NewsHour" interview.

DANIEL ELLSBERG, Former State Department Official: The system that puts everything on the decisions of one man is crazy.

And when I held that piece of paper in my hand, the word in my mind was evil, evil.

This should not exist.

This was the operational plan annually for the Joint Chiefs of Staff that had been approved by General Eisenhower.

And I thought, there shouldn't be anything in the world that corresponds to this.

But there has been then and ever since.

AMNA NAWAZ: David, what it must have taken to arrive at that decision, then to stand by that, even as your own president at the time calls you a traitor.

DAVID BROOKS: Yes.

Well, we have just spent several minutes talking about classified documents should not be taken out of where they belong in the Donald Trump context.

And I generally agree with that.

I think most leakers are wrong.

I thought Edward Snowden was terrible.

But Daniel Ellsberg shows that you can do it right.

And so he did it over many years.

He tried to go up the normal chain of command to show documents to senators and other things.

And so it was -- he went through all the hoops you should go through to prove that it's not just you being an egomaniac; it's you with a legitimate cause.

And then, when he finally leaked those 7,000 documents to The Times, and then eventually The Post, you could at least say, well, he, A, went through all the hoops, B, did it with the full expectation he'd spend the rest of his life in jail.

And so that, to me, is doing it the right way, a thing that probably should almost never be done, except in extreme circumstances, which he was in.

AMNA NAWAZ: Jonathan, how do you think he will be remembered?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: I think he will be remembered as a hero, someone who stood up for principle, someone who had a strong belief and then tried to do something about it.

I agree with David.

I would add one more thing, because you mentioned the name Edward Snowden.

And a lot of people were comparing the two when Snowden leaked all of those documents, saying he's the modern-day Ellsberg.

And I wrote a column then, 10 years ago this week, that said, no, he's not, because while they both leaked documents, Daniel Ellsberg did something Edward Snowden didn't do.

He stayed in this country, he turned himself in, and he allowed himself to be held accountable, something Edward Snowden still refuses to do.

And, in that regard, that's why I say someone like Daniel Ellsberg should be considered a hero, because he did something that stood up for his -- for his beliefs and his value system and then suffered the consequences.

AMNA NAWAZ: His family said in a statement today that -- quote -- "He was not in pain and was surrounded by loving family, even joking in the end, in his final days."

He said: "If I'd known dying would be like this, I would have done it sooner."

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: Of course, our thoughts are with the family of Daniel Ellsberg.

Thank you to you both, David Brooks, Jonathan Capehart.

Good to see you.

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: Leaders from all 31 NATO member nations will hold their annual summit next month in Vilnius, Lithuania.

Ahead of that, some members and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy are stepping up their calls for Ukraine to join the military alliance.

Ali Rogin has the details.

ALI ROGIN: Poland's Parliament today passed a resolution supporting Ukraine's admission to NATO.

Ukraine in NATO was a contentious issue long before the war began, and it has only accelerated since then.

We have now our own debate on when or whether Ukraine should be invited into NATO.

Charles Kupchan served on the National Security Council staff during the Obama and Clinton administrations.

He's now a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a Georgetown University professor.

And Evelyn Farkas was deputy assistant of secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia during the Obama administration.

She is now the executive director of the McCain Institute at Arizona State University.

Welcome back to you both.

Evelyn, I want to begin with you.

You support Ukraine becoming a member of NATO now.

Why.

EVELYN FARKAS, Former Defense Department Official: Ukraine has earned it.

First of all, we gave Ukraine a political agreement back when the international community took their nuclear weapons that we would defend them if they were invaded.

And the countries that were supposed to defend Ukraine did defend Ukraine to some extent, but not to the extent that Ukraine expected.

Since then, Ukraine has been fighting to uphold the international order, the principles of the sanctity of borders, which Russia has violated it repeatedly.

And, frankly speaking, they are now the most capable, the largest, most NATO-interoperable, battle-hardened, capable military on the European continent.

So, from a military perspective, they have also earned it.

ALI ROGIN: Charles, to you, what's your response?

Has Ukraine earned it?

CHARLES KUPCHAN, Former National Security Council Official: I'm all for helping Ukraine and doing our best to enable Ukraine to recover as much of its territory as possible, hopefully all of its territory.

But I part ways with Evelyn on the question of whether NATO should open its doors and offer membership to Ukraine at this point.

President Biden and his NATO allies are helping Ukraine defend itself, but they're not going to war to defend Ukraine, in part because they have made a judgment that they're not ready to see NATO go to war with Russia, risk World War III over Ukraine.

And we need to keep in mind that, if NATO does admit Ukraine, and a single bomb were to fall on Kyiv, we would have a treaty-based obligation to go to war with Russia.

Secondly, I think that we see that this is a war that is going to go on for a long time.

We don't know how to -- how it will end.

We need to keep open the prospect for some sort of cease-fire, perhaps an armistice, in which we might need Russia to play ball.

Much harder to get them to play ball.

Two final reasons.

One is, there's no consensus in NATO about admitting Ukraine.

NATO's strongest suit right now is its unity.

And I don't think we want to interject this debate right before the summit in July, and go into that summit with disunity.

And, finally, there's the domestic question.

Sweden is on the path to NATO membership.

Turkey is blocking it.

It's not clear to me that, if we go down the path of wanting to admit Ukraine, that our own Senate would be ready to ratify it.

Before we start moving toward NATO membership for Ukraine, we need to make sure our political ducks are in order.

ALI ROGIN: Evelyn, I want to pick up on Charles' first point, which was that we should not necessarily be ready to commit American troops to this fight.

You have pointed out to us at the "NewsHour" that Article 5 of NATO's principles that states collective self-defense does not necessarily specify what that response looks like.

So, we're not automatically promising troops to the front.

So, are you saying that you believe that is a commitment that the United States should be willing to make at this point?

EVELYN FARKAS: If Russia is allowed to prevail - - and a cease-fire essentially will mean that Putin can rest, his military can regain strength, and it can attack Ukraine again - - if Putin prevails militarily in Ukraine, he will turn to Georgia, he will turn to Moldova.

And then, make no mistake, Putin will challenge the NATO alliance.

He will do something to cause us to have to make a decision about whether we trigger Article 5 or not.

So it's far better to deal with Putin in the Ukraine context and to deter him there from even -- even having the possibility of fighting another day against NATO.

And how do we do this?

Basically, we have a precedent in the Cold War, where East Berlin was part of Germany, but we did -- and West Germany -- but we did not extend Article 5 to that area because it was occupied by Soviet forces.

So there are ways to get around Article 5.

And if Russia were to attack a part of Ukrainian territory where they are not today, meaning the Ukrainian government has control, so, therefore, Article 5 would count, we can then take a decision about what action to take.

And it does not mean that it necessarily has to involve an escalation all the way to nuclear or to all-out war.

ALI ROGIN: But, Evelyn, sticking with you.

How do you make determinations about what parts of Ukraine are Ukrainian and what parts are under Russian control in an active war zone like this, where individual cities change hands every day?

EVELYN FARKAS: Well, I think, if there's any question, then you just put it into the disputed category.

I don't -- I think it's fairly clear day to day with which towns are controlled.

But on the day that Ukraine becomes a member, that's the day that the map counts.

I recognize that it's a little tricky.

And there's a little bit of danger there for those towns on those days right before when a decision is being finalized.

But I think it's a way to work around it.

ALI ROGIN: The Biden administration has indicated that it is not inclined to support NATO membership at this time for Ukraine.

It would want to wait at least until fighting has ceased.

But, today, there are reports that it is open to agreeing to waive the so-called Membership Action Plan, a series of commitments that NATO applicants have to make before they are admitted.

So, Evelyn, to you.

What do you make of that signal from the Biden administration?

And is that enough?

EVELYN FARKAS: I think, Ali, the Biden administration is responding to pressure from the Europeans.

And I think it's the majority of the NATO members.

I was just in Sweden and Finland, heard that they are very much in favor of NATO membership for Ukraine.

So the Biden administration is not leading this time when it comes to Ukraine's NATO membership, as we were in the past.

And so I think the administration is trying to close the gap between us and our European allies.

ALI ROGIN: Charles?

CHARLES KUPCHAN: I would agree with Evelyn.

I think, Ali, that the Americans are looking for something to give the Ukrainians at the summit.

Waiving the Membership Action Plan is not a bad idea, but it's a procedural maneuver that doesn't really change the game.

It kicks down the road the question of, will Ukraine ever get into NATO?

I think, right now, the main line of effort will stay the main line of effort, and that is getting arms to Ukraine, so that they can continue this offensive and take back as much land as possible on the battlefield.

ALI ROGIN: Charles Kupchan, Evelyn Farkas, thank you so much for joining us.

EVELYN FARKAS: Thank you, Ali.

CHARLES KUPCHAN: It's my pleasure.

AMNA NAWAZ: At 44 years old, John Legend is the very portrait of success.

He's achieved the so-called EGOT, winning two Emmys, 12 Grammys, an Oscar, and a Tony, the first Black man and second youngest person ever to do so.

Now he's on the road with something new, performing and telling his own story.

Jeffrey Brown met up with him recently for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

JEFFREY BROWN: Just a man and his piano at the afternoon sound check on the stage of the Wolf Trap National Park for the Performing Arts outside Washington, D.C., and, that night, before a packed crowd.

John Legend is doing something new in his latest project, singing songs that influenced him and that brought him fame, but also telling personal stories of how he got there.

JOHN LEGEND, Musician: In addition to selling delicious fries, McDonald's did outreach to the Black community in the form of a Black History Month essay competition called Black History Makers of Tomorrow.

I wrote this essay when I was 15 years old, and I said I was going to try to make history by becoming a successful artist and using my success to try to make the world better.

And I still feel that same sense of mission, and I'm going to keep doing it.

JEFFREY BROWN: The other thing you talked about was living up to this name that you chose.

JOHN LEGEND: Yes, I'm trying every day.

(LAUGHTER) JEFFREY BROWN: John Legend.

In fact, he was born and grew up as John Stephens.

But, as John Legend, he's sold millions of albums since his 2004 debut, "Get Lifted," and his 2013 love song, "All of Me," an ode to his wife, model, cookbook author and TV personality Chrissy Teigen, has some two billion streams on Spotify.

A throwback in part to the rich tradition of soul and R&B, he's also known for collaborating with many of this era'S biggest hip-hop stars, including at this year's Grammy Awards, where he joined Jay-Z and others in a rousing show-ender.

What is it that you're bringing to that?

JOHN LEGEND: Well, I'm bringing soul, I'm bringing gospel, I'm bringing all of my own personal experiences to that performance.

And that's what they have me there for.

They don't need me to rap.

(LAUGHTER) JOHN LEGEND: But they need me there to bring that soul and the musicality.

And I think I have always brought that in my collaborations with hip-hop artists.

JEFFREY BROWN: He's celebrity coach on the hit singing competition series "The Voice" and celebrity husband, as well as dad, to the couple's three children.

And he clearly thrives on performing.

JOHN LEGEND: I feel so connected to the audience.

I feel so close to the music, and it feels like I'm just being fully myself up there.

JEFFREY BROWN: On stage now, a stripped-down version of John Legend.

It's just you and the piano.

You like that?

JOHN LEGEND: Yes.

I love it.

It takes me back to being a little boy.

It takes me back to the church in some ways where I grew up, takes me back to my family, where I started to learn to play the piano in our home.

JEFFREY BROWN: He grew up in Springfield, Ohio, in a deeply religious household,a happy one at first, but then frayed when John was 10 and his mother, suffering depression and then addiction, left the family.

He barely saw her for 10 years.

JOHN LEGEND: That was a tough time.

But it also made me more independent and more driven as a musician.

You don't want those experiences to happen, but those experiences help create the person who you are.

And if you react to it in the right way, then you can grow from it, and it can inform and inspire your music, inform and inspire your drive and your ambition.

And that's what it did for me.

JEFFREY BROWN: In a social media age, Legend and Chrissy Teigen are sharers, with huge followings.

In 2020 they shared photos of what Teigen called a miscarriage at the time.

She has since said it was important to clarify, in light of the crackdown nationally on abortion rights, that it was -- quote -- "an abortion to save my life for a baby that had no chance."

Despite some criticism for oversharing, Legend says he is comfortable with their approach to personal and public life.

JOHN LEGEND: I keep plenty of my private life private, even though it feels like we share a lot.

For me and for my wife, so much of who we are as artists and as creatives is inspired by and driven by our family lives and our relationships with our family members.

And so it's all part of who I am.

It's all part of the stories I tell.

JEFFREY BROWN: You shared some difficult things.

JOHN LEGEND: Mm-hmm.

JEFFREY BROWN: A lot of grief in your family.

JOHN LEGEND: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: Did that help?

JOHN LEGEND: Yes.

I think it helped us, but it also helped people that we spoke to too, because, particularly when we went through pregnancy loss, there were so many people that came up to us.

And they still do.

JEFFREY BROWN: Because they felt it and they... JOHN LEGEND: Because they felt it too.

And they have gone through it a lot of times in silence.

A lot of times, people feel shame about it.

They don't want to talk about it.

And removing some of that stigma, especially because it's such a common occurrence, so many people experience pregnancy loss, but we don't hear about it very often.

JEFFREY BROWN: Legend also wants to move the needle politically.

JOHN LEGEND: We are in a time of reckoning.

JEFFREY BROWN: He's expanded his social activism efforts, focused on issues such as economic equity, education, and mass incarceration.

GIRL: I have never really had anyone ask, like, what are you are like what's your skin tone?

JEFFREY BROWN: His "Get Lifted" film and now book companies bring forward undertold stories and writers.

He performed at Joe Biden's inauguration, and says he's impressed with the president's legislative achievement, even while continuing to disagree over criminal justice policies.

And he's ready to engage what he sees as a conservative backlash after George Floyd's murder and the Black Lives Matter movement.

JOHN LEGEND: There's been this strain in conservatism that has looked at this new awareness, this new progressivism when it came on race and said, no, we don't want that.

And the backlash has been strong.

And so people on the side of progressive values, people on the side of us being one nation together under God, where we all have equality have to fight, just like the folks on the side of the backlash are fighting.

JEFFREY BROWN: At his concert, John Legend revealed his alternative life.

JOHN LEGEND: I take a job at a place called Boston Consulting Group.

JEFFREY BROWN: Unsure of making in music, he worked as a management consultant for several years after college, while recording and performing at night.

It might not have been so bad a life, he says now, but... JOHN LEGEND: Honestly, I love making music so much, it's such an inspiring and motivating thing to be able to do to get up in the morning and know that you can create something new that didn't exist before.

Not having that in my life, I couldn't imagine it at this point.

But I'm glad I made the decisions I made and I'm glad life worked out the way it did.

JEFFREY BROWN: For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Wolf Trap National Park for the Performing Arts.

(APPLAUSE) JOHN LEGEND: Thank you!

AMNA NAWAZ: Great interview.

And now I know what music I'm listening to all weekend.

Hey, be sure to tune into "Washington Week" with our own John Yang later tonight right here on PBS for more analysis of former President Trump's historic federal arraignment.

And watch "PBS News Weekend" tomorrow for a look at a new report on what is transforming and mobilizing extremist groups in America.

And, meantime, that is the "NewsHour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of the entire "NewsHour" team, have a great weekend.